tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post5873382366640766288..comments2024-03-27T11:32:34.392-07:00Comments on NOT A HOAX! NOT A DREAM!: FANTASTIC FOUR #249Matthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-6989198278728141082016-03-23T08:50:27.866-07:002016-03-23T08:50:27.866-07:00I haven't read Byrne's NAMOR in years, but...I haven't read Byrne's NAMOR in years, but wasn't Namor himself tied to a chair in that issue? I think he was dehydrated at the time, and hallucinated that the Invaders were coming to rescue him.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-61119866651576084992016-03-17T03:57:31.096-07:002016-03-17T03:57:31.096-07:00Correct that: she was in bandages. But I have haun...Correct that: <i>she</i> was in bandages. But I have haunting memory that <i>someone</i> was tied to a chair, and then the ropes cut and fell off. Could be from any other comic though. It's bit vague because I never really considered the series as essential re-reading material. I know it's Byrne and I can't point out what is so different from his 80's material, but still it somehow feels like living up to the cover announcement on #1: "Out of the depths... and into the 90's!"Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-20048596343477348342016-03-16T21:23:15.763-07:002016-03-16T21:23:15.763-07:00I did do a very quick check for my previous post, ...I <i>did</i> do a very quick check for my previous post, and I believe you're right on every count there, Blam.<br /><br />The <i>übermensch</i> thematics certainly were explicitly name-checked by Roy Thomas, and in our Finnish translation for the 90's Namor they actually and quite curiously used the optional German names Übermensch and Kriegerfrau (from Thomas' Invaders) for the characters, as the straight translations from English would be utterly silly and wouldn't invoke the thematics correctly, what with 'superman' always having been translated to explicitly gender-neutral 'superhuman' and Superman himself "the Steel Man".<br /><br />On the happy note, I can read after all. Something in Byrne's take may have been quite knowing and intentional... could it have been that Master Man was posing with his fists to his hips a lot and Warrior Woman I think was in bondage when she got re-powered? Of course your regular male Byrne face post-1987 is hard to disassociate from Supes to begin with.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-12700641056430637392016-03-16T19:46:51.671-07:002016-03-16T19:46:51.671-07:00While I haven't read (or had occasion to resea...While I haven't read (or had occasion to research) that <i>Invaders</i> run in quite some time, I think Warrior Woman had been created after Master Man and was actually stronger than he was, so now I... uh... wonder if she wasn't supposed to evoke William Moulton Marston's view of female superiority and, in her leather-strapped outfit, themes of domination. Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-54609453216844326752016-03-16T19:43:25.509-07:002016-03-16T19:43:25.509-07:00I think Roy Thomas intended Master Man and Warrior...I think Roy Thomas intended Master Man and Warrior Woman to invoke Superman and Wonder Woman, yes, but as powered-down versions not unlike the Golden Age Superman was himself at the very start — and that he <i>also</i> intended to contrast with Captain America and invoke the real-world concept of the lowercase-<i>s</i> superman/overman, the <i>übermensch</i>, in relation to Hitler’s supposed Aryan master race.Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-5344828162593146442016-03-16T12:23:21.982-07:002016-03-16T12:23:21.982-07:00Maybe Wolverine lacks the physical strength to pus...Maybe Wolverine lacks the physical strength to push them into Supe's flesh, even if adamantium technically was capable of cutting him.<br /><br />On the other hand, Batman seems less lucky some pictures lower, and Spidey is owning him in this one. Unless he has spider-web repellent spray. He probably does.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-79653465812025883602016-03-16T09:11:08.964-07:002016-03-16T09:11:08.964-07:00Teemu, as it happens, just the other day, @JohnByr...Teemu, as it happens, just the other day, @JohnByrneSays posted a commission Byrne drew in 2013, featuring Superman and Batman vs. Wolverine and Spider-Man, and I think this settles his thoughts on Pre-CRISIS Superman vs. adamantium claws:<br /><br /><a href="http://johnbyrnedraws.tumblr.com/post/141047686436/superman-batman-vs-spider-man-wolverine" rel="nofollow"><b>Superman & Batman Vs Spider-Man & Wolverine commission by John Byrne. 2013.</b></a><br /><br />Looks like adamantium scrapes off Superman's chin, sending sparks flying but otherwise doing nothing.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-86364313493275115692016-03-16T09:08:12.323-07:002016-03-16T09:08:12.323-07:00Yeah, Superman against the Avengers would be a way...Yeah, Superman against the Avengers would be a way different fight than Superman against the FF. That said, I bet Pre-CRISIS Superman could still put up a decent showing, even if he was to lose in the end.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-24139920104148840292016-03-16T09:07:16.156-07:002016-03-16T09:07:16.156-07:00I have Marvel's recent two-book set of the ful...I have Marvel's recent two-book set of the full original INVADERS series. Someday I'll read it...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-89337304187402412012016-03-15T07:30:24.316-07:002016-03-15T07:30:24.316-07:00I dunno.
I think Superman or the Superman analog...I dunno. <br />I think Superman or the Superman analogue, would have to be pitted against the real premier Marvel heroes. <br /><br />the Avengers and he'd have hell of a lot more trouble with them. <br />This is a team that includes or has included Thor<br />Captain Marvel ( Monica Rambeux ) <br />Iron man <br />Hercules <br />Sersi <br />The Hulk <br />Vision<br />Wonder man<br />She Hulk<br />and led by Captain America<br /><br />None of these are lightweights, The Dude Of Steel might have a fight on his hands there. Snowkatthttp://focusedtotalitycomics.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-55343508945816090612016-03-14T14:43:38.959-07:002016-03-14T14:43:38.959-07:00... damn. Yes, he was. Invaders is the blind spot ...... damn. Yes, he was. Invaders is the blind spot in my Marveldom. I've seen them cameo on Marvel Saga and then been perplexed on the 40's comics not knowing them. My brain actively writes over there being 70's war comics with Marvel superheroes.<br /><br />Actually I think now it's my own misread. I've seen Master Man and Warrior Woman on the aforementioned Byrne Namor and always read them as sort of Superman/Wonder Woman wind-up, but MM's origin obviously posits him as Captain America equivalent, having been a frail American nazi Bundist Willie Lohmer who went through the stolen super soldier treatment.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-9923297283666584272016-03-14T12:35:53.659-07:002016-03-14T12:35:53.659-07:00Wasn't Master Man originally from INVADERS? I...Wasn't Master Man originally from INVADERS? I could totally see Roy Thomas doing another take on a Marvel Superman, though I'm not sure I could see him making that character a Nazi!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-18129879635662243832016-03-14T12:34:40.213-07:002016-03-14T12:34:40.213-07:00Ah, yes. I think Byrne has homaged the cover once...Ah, yes. I think Byrne has homaged the cover once or twice more, as well, most recently in his TRIO mini-series at IDW. I like that he went to the trouble of picking rough analogues for the FF. I wonder if anyone has ever hired him to do a straight mash-up commission homage featuring Superman and the FF?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-54989231640308996042016-03-13T01:56:05.106-08:002016-03-13T01:56:05.106-08:00I got only Wikipedia knowledge to show off with fr...I got only Wikipedia knowledge to show off with from the early 00's onwards, but I'll actively make do with what I got. It's appropriate though that Marvel doesn't have a go-to equivalent to the Original Superhero, and any commenting they feel they need to do on the concept is through these sort of second tier characters. It all really reads like certain respectfulness towards Himself.<br /><br />Unless of course one wants to count Master Man from early 90's Byrne Namor as a Nazi equivalent one, though he's maybe more the original "superman" type the Man of Steel was created to subvert in the first place. Quite a dark place our beloved genre comes from if one wants to look it like that.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-60130436358645932312016-03-11T19:42:51.993-08:002016-03-11T19:42:51.993-08:00You’re likely aware of this but it’s always fun to...<br>You’re likely aware of this but it’s always fun to mention: Not long after Byrne started on Superman he switched things up in <a href="http://www.comics.org/issue/43196/cover/4/" rel="nofollow">an homage to this cover</a>. Superman takes Gladiator’s place and the FF are replaced by members of the Legion of Super-Heroes with similar abilities — Sun Boy, Blok, Invisible Kid, and Brainiac 5 (who has Reed’s smarts rather than his stretching power, but close enough, and his force-field belt is a bonus nod to Sue).<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-73488371093515611442016-03-11T09:10:52.427-08:002016-03-11T09:10:52.427-08:00Yeah, I guess Sentry is. I hadn't really thou...Yeah, I guess Sentry is. I hadn't really thought of him since, as we all know, Marvel mostly ceased to exist around 2000 or so.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-49700646346721083492016-03-09T13:19:31.148-08:002016-03-09T13:19:31.148-08:00Can't a fellow wear blue tights and red cape a...Can't a fellow wear blue tights and red cape and swimtrunks and hit harder than Wonder Man without comparisons being instantly made?<br /><br />Also, isn't Sentry also a Superman stand-in in Marvel Universe?Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-2033247760293482752016-03-09T08:39:31.987-08:002016-03-09T08:39:31.987-08:00Thanks! I want to read Gruenwald's QUASAR som...Thanks! I want to read Gruenwald's QUASAR someday. I love his CAPTAIN AMERICA.<br /><br />I agree that in terms of stature and power, Thor is more-or-less Marvel's Superman, though in terms of actual power-<i>set</i>, I think it's Gladiator or Hyperion. In any case, a three-way slugfest between all of them would be a fun issue. I'd love something like that drawn by Byrne or Perez.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-5382070801016994932016-03-09T08:37:52.448-08:002016-03-09T08:37:52.448-08:00Oh yeah! Didn't you do a post about that Supr...Oh yeah! Didn't you do a post about that Supreme/Gladiator story? I remember reading it and thinking how random and bizarre it was that there was a comic with Gladiator, of all characters, as the co-headliner.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-14307759422597373462016-03-09T08:36:48.199-08:002016-03-09T08:36:48.199-08:00Well, one of us could sign up for his forum and as...Well, one of us could sign up for his forum and ask him, though I'd fear for my safety if I did it and someone found this blog, where I have occasionally dared to criticize his genius.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-73270548999818571482016-03-08T13:55:17.742-08:002016-03-08T13:55:17.742-08:00They did actually fight each other sometime during...They did actually fight each other sometime during the Quasar series. Towards the end of the series. I think Gladiator won.<br /><br />How about a three-way, adding in Thor?<br />They did the Thor vs. Hyperion fight back when Roy Thomas was writing Thor.<br />Thor is really the closest Marvel has to their own version of Superman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-2178012713283924072016-03-08T12:59:37.325-08:002016-03-08T12:59:37.325-08:00I won't presume to guess, but Byrne's cred...I won't presume to guess, but Byrne's credentials to make that call IMO surpasses the combined opinion by the EICs of the big two on the matter, so if we could come up with a way to lure a statement off John Byrne then that would be it. Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-91646581652583121672016-03-08T12:23:01.111-08:002016-03-08T12:23:01.111-08:00Julie appears to be playing a comedia del arte sty...Julie appears to be playing a comedia del arte style clown. And while I'm not sure if Gladiator ever fought Hyperion, Supreme beat him pretty good, pre-story of the year, in one of Image's dumber Marvel crossovers.Dobsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08884152078310514684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-18673428909379921902016-03-08T10:40:34.351-08:002016-03-08T10:40:34.351-08:00Actually, you bring up an interesting question whi...Actually, you bring up an interesting question which I'm not sure has ever been addressed in any inter-company crossover -- can adamantium claws penetrate Superman's skin? Post-CRISIS I'd assume yes, it would be equivalent to cutting a normal man with a normal knife -- but I'm not so sure about the pre-CRISIS version.<br /><br />Though if anyone's qualified to write and draw the story, at least post-CRISIS, I'd say it would be John Byrne.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105844689832543332.post-75972052321726122382016-03-07T12:29:56.546-08:002016-03-07T12:29:56.546-08:00Wolverine would beat him, off-panel.Wolverine would beat him, off-panel.Teemunoreply@blogger.com